Ten gets you twenty it was a false flag operation. Kirk was a well-known fascist mouthpiece but a nobody in the great scheme of things; perfect individual to use to create a martyr and open the door to the next chapter of the Nazi Playbook.
Yep. Now we get to see if a) the Nazis try to claim the shooter was trans, and b) if the shooter is ever found. I suspect if the latter, the shooter will be conveniently killed, but an investigation into their background will reveal they're also a Nazi.
Absolutely. Look at the circumstance of this murder: shot from 200 yds away - two football fields distance. One lethal shot and the killer disappears. Does that sounds like an ordinary person or more like a sharp shooter/sniper/trained assassin?
Sorry . Agreed. One of the tells was the naming of his organization was called Turning Point USA. The optics are the icing. This may have been their plan all all along to pivot the US into authoritarianism using that exact “turning point” or “ pivot”
Goebbels turned Horst Wessel, a murderous Nazi thug, hoist by his own petard, into saint. You’re right Jessica. It’s bye bye, Epstein. Hello Saint Charlie.
Charlie Kirk said of gun deaths on April 5, 2023, "I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the Second Amendment to protect our other God-given rights."
Oh.
. . .
Well, OK, then.
You don't have to ask Charlie Kirk's widow what her opinion of that is. You already know.
Don't you?
I'm not saying Charlie Kirk got what he deserved, I don't know what anyone deserves. I'm just pointing out the irony, and that when all this has calmed down, all the politicians need to go in to Congress and think not only of this, but think also of the assault weapon killings. Start there. Start somewhere. That's their job.
PS: With respect to Charlie Kirk's statement that we need the Second Amendment to protect our God-given rights, please tell me when, where and under what circumstances have you have ever heard of any American citizen having taken up his arms and gone out and used them to protect what he thought are America's God-given rights? You have? Tell me what happened to them. Were they arrested? Tried? Executed? e.g. Timothy McVeigh, Oklahoma City bomber, executed. Ted Kaczynski, Unibomber, life imprisonment. I could make a very long list. We the people don't individually use the guns we want to keep to protect anyone or anything. We can't. It's illegal. What we say is, that you cannot take the law into your own hands. We have law enforcement for that. That's their job. It's not my job. It's against the law for you to do that except in one narrow instance, and that is to protect your own life or the life of another person. That's it, and if you think that all you have to do is claim that's what you were doing and you can walk away from something like that, buddy you've got another think coming. Ask a trial lawyer how easy he or she thinks it is to establish the defense of self-defense in a court of law.
If people would only think about the things they say, they'd see they often don't really mean the things they say. Back in the day there were bumper stickers that read: 'Caution. Engage brain before putting mouth in gear.'
But it worked for Kyle Rittenhouse. And what about the thousands of extrajudicial murders (Lynchings) that are deep part of US history? Or more recent murder of 11 unidentified people on a boat?
Your credulity is astounding, protecting your life is exactly what Kirk was talking about. It's a little weird that you suddenly love the police after the left have rioted against them for the past 10+ years. Do you seriously trust the police to protect you? And recall that the left backed the extremely unpopular and failed defund the police movement at the same time as putting in activist judges who let repeat violent offenders back into the public. No, you can't defund the police, release violent criminals and also disarm me. Take a moment to reflect on the message the left has sent America.
You are exactly, precisely, what's wrong with this country. You don't know me. You don't know anything about me. You see me take a stand on something and then since I've stuck my head out you jump up out of whatever squalid hole you live in and attempt to smear me, personally, with every single thing you don't like about people you have been programmed to hate. What you have become under their tutelage is a hateful, hating churl (look it up) spreading hate for the sake of hate. You think that's fun. You enjoy it. You act like "liberal" is a dirty word. I'm not a liberal. I'm a LIBERAL.
If you can read, this is going to surprise you. Take a look at Wikipedia, Here's the beginning of it's definition of "Liberalism". It reads:
"Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on the rights of the individual, liberty, consent of the governed, political equality, the right to private property, and equality before the law. Liberals espouse various and sometimes conflicting views depending on their understanding of these principles but generally support private property, market economies, individual rights (including civil rights and human rights), liberal democracy, secularism, rule of law, economic and political freedom, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly, and freedom of religion.[3] Liberalism is frequently cited as the dominant ideology of modern history."
Again, if you can read go over that and show me one - just even one - single word that you could possibly take issue with, based on what you think you believe.
Defund the police? Who do you think is defunding the police? Google "Trump defund the police". The titles of the first five entries are: "Fact Sheet: President Trump Steals from Law Enforcement", "Trump Defunds Effective Crime Prevention Policies", "Trump Budget Defunds the Police", "Trump is Gutting Police and Public Safety Funding" and "Are Police Souring on Trump?".
Buddy, you don't know what you're talking about. You're being played. Wake up. The people who are training you to hate half the country are the people who are trying to destroy democracy in America. They want to destroy the police so there'll be no one to arrest them for their crimes.
You probably haven't the capacity to understand a word I'm saying, and I pity you for it, but thanks anyway. I appreciate the opportunity to preach to my choir.
Can you read? If so, go read George Orwell's prescient (look it up) novel, "1984". You have been taught to hate, programmed to hate, just like the victimized people in that book.
Opening your response with personal insults calling me a hateful peasant while asserting that I have smeared you is rich. No, I don't think you are personally responsible for these policies. When I was not responding to the point that you personally made (leave it to the police), I was using "you" as a euphemism as though I were speaking to the left in general, and I tried to make that more clear with the follow up sentence which asked you to reflect on the leftist movement as a whole, rather than your personal views. In any case, yes, I do live in a "squalid hole," a city that has been run into the ground by progressive defund the policers and an activist DA who lets out repeat violent offenders.
Since you claim to be a liberal I don't understand how your response to this article could be a simple response of: "Right." when the author literally said the question of whether we should condemn Kirk's murder is "ridiculous" comparing it to:
"Do you condemn the chainsaws that someone juggled? Do you condemn the garbage disposal?"
In a liberal society, we condemn political violence and uphold freedom of speech. You are not upholding your vaunted liberalism if you casually and carelessly agree with this article. Liberalism is based on individual rights and responsibilities, legal personhood. We do not equate first degree murder with the actions of a machine (nor do we blame the victim!). We hold the individual perpetrator responsible for his actions. And we do not call someone a murderer for his speech (which this author also did).
No one taught me to hate. We are born with hatred, and I own my hatred. I do this so I don't project my hatred onto others to justify their murder. My hatred belongs to me, so do not blame it on anyone else. Again, you rob me of personal responsibility and agency. The line between good and evil cuts through the heart of every man. Everyone should be assiduously aware that they too partake in the hatred inherent to human nature. People like the author of this piece seem to be carelessly unaware of their own capacity for hatred. We should all look in the mirror, consult our conscience and look into our heart when an act like this happens, questioning how we got here and what role we may have played in it. It's certainly something that I am doing.
I find it sad that you would ignore what I have written and demean it in such a way. Owning your hatred is to be conscious of it, to understand it, to suffer it, to be responsible for it and to keep it in leash. It means not projecting it on others. Hatred exists in the heart of every man. As you have given me your last word, so you may have mine:
Let us not become inured to the daily onslaught of stories like this...they are meant to wear us down, make us feel like giving up. But no. Do not give up. Be a better person than you were yesterday. Learn to forgive the frequencies and vibrations of hate as you keep moving in the light. Trust the good writers (who are also good thinkers), like Jessica. Thank you.
This is where America’s script starts sounding less like democracy and more like a Greek tragedy performed by WWE. The guy built his whole career yelling “violence, chaos, and division,” then acted shocked when the universe said, “Cool, your order’s ready.”
But let’s not kid ourselves. His death won’t end the carnival. It just hands the ringmaster a bigger microphone. Trump and crew will squeeze this assassination like it’s the last tube of toothpaste before payday.
We’re left in the moral no-man’s land. No celebration, no mourning. Just the bitter recognition that hate always cashes the checks it writes.
Blessed be the ones who refuse to build their brand on someone else’s funeral pyre.
Dus to the Byzantine levels of intrigue in politics in our recent history, I can't help but wonder if this wasn't some type of "black ops" job. A super secret operation to take out a very animated mouthpiece but someone who really wasn't that important in the grand scheme, but visible enough to create a martyr and set the stage for the next round of repression.
Perhaps it will be 'traced' to a Democrat and will serve as an impetus to 'neutralize' that element in politics.
I've read articles that have stated that several high ranking military figures have said they had not sworn an oath to protect the president but to the Constitution. Ever since Regan I've seen what would normally be the center of politics shift to the right with each succeeding Republican administration. I do admire the Republican party presenting a unified front while Democrats squabble among themselves over what are really quite minor points of minutiae. It astonishes me every time that general polls among citizens favor a more liberal agenda, but we keep electing Republicans. I'm in despair over the prospect of becoming a 'Christian' nation. I'm not 'religious' in the current definition of that word. I believe you're a good person or you're not; 'Christians' may spout Jesus's name but have totally abandoned all of the tenants if that faith. Jesus preached love and inclusion of for ALL, preached helping the poor and the sick, condemned the rich for hoarding their wealth. Jesus was a radical liberal, he was everything that current so called 'Christians' hate and condemn about who they call 'libtards' They are hypocrites of the highest order.
This started out as one subject buf morphed along the way here; I hope I haven't bored anyone with my rant. I see so much that's just wrong with the order of priorities im the world. We could be so much better than we are, but for fear of the unknown.
Ten gets you twenty it was a false flag operation. Kirk was a well-known fascist mouthpiece but a nobody in the great scheme of things; perfect individual to use to create a martyr and open the door to the next chapter of the Nazi Playbook.
Damn, that was my IMMEDIATE thought as well.
We live in dangerous times.
It crossed my mind, and let's be honest, if it were the reverse, MAGA would be saying the exact same thing.
Yep. Now we get to see if a) the Nazis try to claim the shooter was trans, and b) if the shooter is ever found. I suspect if the latter, the shooter will be conveniently killed, but an investigation into their background will reveal they're also a Nazi.
Let’s pray the shooter was his jilted gay lover. Now that would confuse em.
Exactly what I said to my aunt. Just like the Reichstag fire in Germany.
My first thought was "Horst Wessel."
Absolutely. Look at the circumstance of this murder: shot from 200 yds away - two football fields distance. One lethal shot and the killer disappears. Does that sounds like an ordinary person or more like a sharp shooter/sniper/trained assassin?
Did you see that they found the weapon? Bolt action rifle. Perfect sniper weapon. A footprint, too.
Sorry . Agreed. One of the tells was the naming of his organization was called Turning Point USA. The optics are the icing. This may have been their plan all all along to pivot the US into authoritarianism using that exact “turning point” or “ pivot”
One of the
I totally agree
Goebbels turned Horst Wessel, a murderous Nazi thug, hoist by his own petard, into saint. You’re right Jessica. It’s bye bye, Epstein. Hello Saint Charlie.
99% of political violence backfires.
Unfortunately, yep.
First thing I thought of when I heard the news.
That's dark ...
Kirk was shot while answering a question from an audience member about mass shootings
Well done, you walked the "fine line" with aplomb and grace. As for me, I am reminded of Bette Davis's statement after Joan Crawford's death.
"You should never say bad things about the dead, you should only say good. Joan Crawford is dead."
"Good".
But then, I have NEVER been a "nice" person.
Thanks, I wasn't planning to write about it tonight but the words just sorta came. They needed to get out.
Moms Mabley said it before Bette Davis. Still a great quote.
Well said. I wrote a more poetic version I’ll post as a note in the morning.
Right.
Also right:
Charlie Kirk said of gun deaths on April 5, 2023, "I think it's worth it. I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the Second Amendment to protect our other God-given rights."
Oh.
. . .
Well, OK, then.
You don't have to ask Charlie Kirk's widow what her opinion of that is. You already know.
Don't you?
I'm not saying Charlie Kirk got what he deserved, I don't know what anyone deserves. I'm just pointing out the irony, and that when all this has calmed down, all the politicians need to go in to Congress and think not only of this, but think also of the assault weapon killings. Start there. Start somewhere. That's their job.
PS: With respect to Charlie Kirk's statement that we need the Second Amendment to protect our God-given rights, please tell me when, where and under what circumstances have you have ever heard of any American citizen having taken up his arms and gone out and used them to protect what he thought are America's God-given rights? You have? Tell me what happened to them. Were they arrested? Tried? Executed? e.g. Timothy McVeigh, Oklahoma City bomber, executed. Ted Kaczynski, Unibomber, life imprisonment. I could make a very long list. We the people don't individually use the guns we want to keep to protect anyone or anything. We can't. It's illegal. What we say is, that you cannot take the law into your own hands. We have law enforcement for that. That's their job. It's not my job. It's against the law for you to do that except in one narrow instance, and that is to protect your own life or the life of another person. That's it, and if you think that all you have to do is claim that's what you were doing and you can walk away from something like that, buddy you've got another think coming. Ask a trial lawyer how easy he or she thinks it is to establish the defense of self-defense in a court of law.
If people would only think about the things they say, they'd see they often don't really mean the things they say. Back in the day there were bumper stickers that read: 'Caution. Engage brain before putting mouth in gear.'
Unfortunately, I think all Republicans will start with is scapegoating.
They did within an hour or two of the shooting.
But it worked for Kyle Rittenhouse. And what about the thousands of extrajudicial murders (Lynchings) that are deep part of US history? Or more recent murder of 11 unidentified people on a boat?
Your credulity is astounding, protecting your life is exactly what Kirk was talking about. It's a little weird that you suddenly love the police after the left have rioted against them for the past 10+ years. Do you seriously trust the police to protect you? And recall that the left backed the extremely unpopular and failed defund the police movement at the same time as putting in activist judges who let repeat violent offenders back into the public. No, you can't defund the police, release violent criminals and also disarm me. Take a moment to reflect on the message the left has sent America.
You are exactly, precisely, what's wrong with this country. You don't know me. You don't know anything about me. You see me take a stand on something and then since I've stuck my head out you jump up out of whatever squalid hole you live in and attempt to smear me, personally, with every single thing you don't like about people you have been programmed to hate. What you have become under their tutelage is a hateful, hating churl (look it up) spreading hate for the sake of hate. You think that's fun. You enjoy it. You act like "liberal" is a dirty word. I'm not a liberal. I'm a LIBERAL.
If you can read, this is going to surprise you. Take a look at Wikipedia, Here's the beginning of it's definition of "Liberalism". It reads:
"Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on the rights of the individual, liberty, consent of the governed, political equality, the right to private property, and equality before the law. Liberals espouse various and sometimes conflicting views depending on their understanding of these principles but generally support private property, market economies, individual rights (including civil rights and human rights), liberal democracy, secularism, rule of law, economic and political freedom, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly, and freedom of religion.[3] Liberalism is frequently cited as the dominant ideology of modern history."
Again, if you can read go over that and show me one - just even one - single word that you could possibly take issue with, based on what you think you believe.
Defund the police? Who do you think is defunding the police? Google "Trump defund the police". The titles of the first five entries are: "Fact Sheet: President Trump Steals from Law Enforcement", "Trump Defunds Effective Crime Prevention Policies", "Trump Budget Defunds the Police", "Trump is Gutting Police and Public Safety Funding" and "Are Police Souring on Trump?".
Buddy, you don't know what you're talking about. You're being played. Wake up. The people who are training you to hate half the country are the people who are trying to destroy democracy in America. They want to destroy the police so there'll be no one to arrest them for their crimes.
You probably haven't the capacity to understand a word I'm saying, and I pity you for it, but thanks anyway. I appreciate the opportunity to preach to my choir.
Can you read? If so, go read George Orwell's prescient (look it up) novel, "1984". You have been taught to hate, programmed to hate, just like the victimized people in that book.
And you don't even know it.
Opening your response with personal insults calling me a hateful peasant while asserting that I have smeared you is rich. No, I don't think you are personally responsible for these policies. When I was not responding to the point that you personally made (leave it to the police), I was using "you" as a euphemism as though I were speaking to the left in general, and I tried to make that more clear with the follow up sentence which asked you to reflect on the leftist movement as a whole, rather than your personal views. In any case, yes, I do live in a "squalid hole," a city that has been run into the ground by progressive defund the policers and an activist DA who lets out repeat violent offenders.
Since you claim to be a liberal I don't understand how your response to this article could be a simple response of: "Right." when the author literally said the question of whether we should condemn Kirk's murder is "ridiculous" comparing it to:
"Do you condemn the chainsaws that someone juggled? Do you condemn the garbage disposal?"
In a liberal society, we condemn political violence and uphold freedom of speech. You are not upholding your vaunted liberalism if you casually and carelessly agree with this article. Liberalism is based on individual rights and responsibilities, legal personhood. We do not equate first degree murder with the actions of a machine (nor do we blame the victim!). We hold the individual perpetrator responsible for his actions. And we do not call someone a murderer for his speech (which this author also did).
No one taught me to hate. We are born with hatred, and I own my hatred. I do this so I don't project my hatred onto others to justify their murder. My hatred belongs to me, so do not blame it on anyone else. Again, you rob me of personal responsibility and agency. The line between good and evil cuts through the heart of every man. Everyone should be assiduously aware that they too partake in the hatred inherent to human nature. People like the author of this piece seem to be carelessly unaware of their own capacity for hatred. We should all look in the mirror, consult our conscience and look into our heart when an act like this happens, questioning how we got here and what role we may have played in it. It's certainly something that I am doing.
Word salad that makes no sense. You own your hate? Really? You want to go with that?
Whatever.
I am done with you.
My last word, to you and Charlie Kirk and everyone like you - and henceforth I will not return to this thread:
Sow the wind.
Reap the whirlwind.
I find it sad that you would ignore what I have written and demean it in such a way. Owning your hatred is to be conscious of it, to understand it, to suffer it, to be responsible for it and to keep it in leash. It means not projecting it on others. Hatred exists in the heart of every man. As you have given me your last word, so you may have mine:
Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto
Well said.
Beautifully said.
Let us not become inured to the daily onslaught of stories like this...they are meant to wear us down, make us feel like giving up. But no. Do not give up. Be a better person than you were yesterday. Learn to forgive the frequencies and vibrations of hate as you keep moving in the light. Trust the good writers (who are also good thinkers), like Jessica. Thank you.
Peaceful opposition might not get them to listen to us.
Violent opposition definitely won't.
*Shrug*
What happens, happens.
This is where America’s script starts sounding less like democracy and more like a Greek tragedy performed by WWE. The guy built his whole career yelling “violence, chaos, and division,” then acted shocked when the universe said, “Cool, your order’s ready.”
But let’s not kid ourselves. His death won’t end the carnival. It just hands the ringmaster a bigger microphone. Trump and crew will squeeze this assassination like it’s the last tube of toothpaste before payday.
We’re left in the moral no-man’s land. No celebration, no mourning. Just the bitter recognition that hate always cashes the checks it writes.
Blessed be the ones who refuse to build their brand on someone else’s funeral pyre.
Well said. Truth.
Yours is the best comment I’ve read on this.
It’s up to all of us to keep Epstein front & center.
Unfortunately shootings like this just turns these hate filled people into martyrs, fuelling even more hate.
Dus to the Byzantine levels of intrigue in politics in our recent history, I can't help but wonder if this wasn't some type of "black ops" job. A super secret operation to take out a very animated mouthpiece but someone who really wasn't that important in the grand scheme, but visible enough to create a martyr and set the stage for the next round of repression.
Perhaps it will be 'traced' to a Democrat and will serve as an impetus to 'neutralize' that element in politics.
I've read articles that have stated that several high ranking military figures have said they had not sworn an oath to protect the president but to the Constitution. Ever since Regan I've seen what would normally be the center of politics shift to the right with each succeeding Republican administration. I do admire the Republican party presenting a unified front while Democrats squabble among themselves over what are really quite minor points of minutiae. It astonishes me every time that general polls among citizens favor a more liberal agenda, but we keep electing Republicans. I'm in despair over the prospect of becoming a 'Christian' nation. I'm not 'religious' in the current definition of that word. I believe you're a good person or you're not; 'Christians' may spout Jesus's name but have totally abandoned all of the tenants if that faith. Jesus preached love and inclusion of for ALL, preached helping the poor and the sick, condemned the rich for hoarding their wealth. Jesus was a radical liberal, he was everything that current so called 'Christians' hate and condemn about who they call 'libtards' They are hypocrites of the highest order.
This started out as one subject buf morphed along the way here; I hope I haven't bored anyone with my rant. I see so much that's just wrong with the order of priorities im the world. We could be so much better than we are, but for fear of the unknown.
Rant over, flame off...for now
This is like the 4thbpolitical assassination in the US this year. This is beyond insanity, it is imperial decline in real time.
The rest of the world is still telling from IDF’s illegal assault on Qatar and this rolls around. Have you guys gone completely nuts?
Seems like it. Maybe we always were nuts, but just hiding it better.